In this episode of the Redefining Society podcast, host Marco Ciappelli sits down with Dr. Robert Pearl to discuss the groundbreaking potential of generative AI in revolutionizing the healthcare industry.
Guest: ✨ Dr. Robert Pearl, Author of "ChatGPT, MD"
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-pearl-m-d-32427b98/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/RobertPearlMD
Website | https://RobertPearlMD.com
____________________________
Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
_____________________________
This Episode’s Sponsors
BlackCloak 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbcweb
Bugcrowd 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbgcweb
Episode Introduction
Exploring the Intersection of Technology and Healthcare
In the latest episode of the Redefining Society podcast, host Marco Ciappelli dives into the intersection of technology and healthcare with esteemed guest Dr. Robert Pearl. The conversation revolves around the transformative impact of generative AI on reshaping the landscape of medical practices and patient care.
Empowering Patients and Doctors through CHAT GPT MD
Dr. Robert Pearl, a former CEO of Kaiser Permanente and a leading voice in healthcare transformation, shares insights into his latest book, CHAT GPT MD. This innovative approach harnesses the power of generative AI to empower patients and doctors alike, offering a personalized and data-driven approach to healthcare solutions.
The Evolution of Healthcare Practices
From his vast experience in the healthcare industry, Dr. Pearl highlights the urgent need for a paradigm shift in medical practices. By integrating generative AI tools like CHAT GPT, healthcare providers can enhance diagnostic accuracy, streamline patient care, and improve overall clinical outcomes.
Navigating Privacy and Security Concerns
As the healthcare system adopts advanced technologies like generative AI, concerns around data privacy and cybersecurity come to the forefront. Dr. Pearl addresses these issues, emphasizing the importance of safeguarding patient information while leveraging the benefits of AI-driven insights.
Embracing a New Era of Care
Through personalized care, continuous monitoring, and informed decision-making, the collaboration between patients, doctors, and AI tools like CHAT GPT paves the way for a new era of healthcare. By embracing innovation and valuing the doctor-patient relationship, the industry can move towards more efficient and effective care delivery.
Driving Positive Change in Healthcare
Dr. Robert Pearl's vision for the future of healthcare underscores the transformative potential of generative AI. By harnessing the capabilities of AI tools, providers and patients can collectively drive positive change, optimize healthcare practices, and enhance the overall patient experience.
About the Book
Doctors And Patients Have Lost Control Of American Medicine. Generative AI Can Put The Power Back In Their Hands.
Welcome to ChatGPT, MD. In this unique collaboration, renowned healthcare leader Dr. Robert Pearl teams up with the artificial intelligence system ChatGPT to examine the transformational power of generative AI in medicine.
Together, the co-authors present a vision for the future where doctors, patients, and AI join forces to reclaim control of American healthcare from prevailing corporate interests.
With engaging narratives and real-world examples, ChatGPT, MD reveals how advanced AI technologies can reduce medical errors, enhance diagnostic precision, ease the growing burden on healthcare professionals, and—most important—democratize medical expertise, arming patients with the kinds of tools and knowledge once reserved only for doctors.
While the future looks incredibly promising, the journey will be fraught with challenges. In ChatGPT, MD, Dr. Pearl tackles tough questions concerning technological bias, patient privacy, and the threat of job displacement in an AI-driven healthcare system.
An indispensable guide for healthcare professionals, patients, and anyone who’s disenchanted with the current healthcare system and invested in its future.
_____________________________
Resources
ChatGPT, MD: How AI-Empowered Patients & Doctors Can Take Back Control of American Medicine: https://robertpearlmd.com/chatgptmd/#:~:text=With%20engaging%20narratives%20and%20real,of%20tools%20and%20knowledge%20once
Dr. Pearl's Newsletter:
https://app.flashissue.com/newsletters/ce20648294065ec89cb69f1d6eebbb994bcb3fb0
____________________________
To see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:
https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcast
Watch the webcast version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllTUoWMGGQHlGVZA575VtGr9
Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?
👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/advertise-on-itspmagazine-podcast
Book | Chat GPT - MD | Unleashing the Power of Generative AI in Healthcare | A Conversation with the author, Dr. Robert Pearl | Redefining Society with Marco Ciappelli
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
_________________________________________
[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Redefining Society podcast with me, Marco Ciapelli on ITSP Magazine podcast. On my show, on this show, we talk about technology and society and the other way around. Pretty much try to understand and drive technology in a way that is good for society.
For our society and not just because we're following blinking Lights and funny noises and we do things just because we can so today I have the pleasure to have Dr. Robert Pearl back on the show. He's been I think this is the fourth time so I would say Somebody that I'm very happy to have again, always beautiful conversation.
Uh, Dr. Robert Pearl is a former, Kaiser Permanente CEO. He wrote a couple of books already, one of which he came and discuss on my show already, and now he wrote one that is called. CHAT GPT MD.
And obviously, as you can probably tell from the title, it's about generative AI. So without further ado, I'm very, very interested and curious to see what Dr. Pearl foresees for the future and see for the present for, uh, the healthcare industry. So, Robert Pearl, doctor, welcome to the show.
[00:01:26] Dr. Robert Pearl: Thank you, Marco.
It's always a pleasure to be in conversation with you. The idea of combining technology and society and healthcare is a passion of mine. I know it's one of yours and all great conversation this morning.
[00:01:40] Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think not too long ago, we, we actually were on a podcast together and we were already talking about the power of generative AI.
We were talking about the fact that it's not easy to get into the medical industry mind, let's say, that is sometimes a little bit conservative when it comes to changing things the way they are. And, uh, and all of a sudden, We deal now with generative AI, and you already talked about the positive aspect of all of this last time was before the book, and we were saying how things go so fast that, I don't know, maybe a week, it feels like 10 years of technology a few years ago.
So I am just curious to know what, what are you uncovering on this book? But let's start with, Again, even if I've done a little bit of an introduction, who is Dr. Robert Pearl and why did you write this book?
[00:02:40] Dr. Robert Pearl: So as you said Marco, I was the CEO in Kaiser Permanente. I did that for 18 years and after that I wanted to Try to transform American medicine.
I teach at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Graduate School of Medicine. I have my own weekly podcast, Fixing Healthcare, and I write for Forbes, and I follow things very closely. My view has been, and we talked about on the show before, that American medicine is quite problematic, that it's overly expensive.
Half of the nation can't afford the out of pocket payments, even though they're insured. There's 400, 000 deaths annually from misdiagnoses. Quarter of a million deaths from medical errors. Uh, we spend twice what almost any other nation does and our outcomes lag. They're the 12 most industrialized nations.
We could spend an entire show talking about the problems. I'm not a problem kind of guy. You're not a problem kind of guy. So we've wanted to talk about the solutions and they've been outlined. We've talked about that before. This idea of, of moving from paying doctors on a transactional fee for service basis.
To a pay for value prepayment capitation. We call it what we want. The idea that in the current 21st century, the single doctor alone is not the solution, requires teams of physicians. Chronic disease is now the biggest problem. 60 percent of Americans have it. And so we've known where to go, but we haven't had the tool to get there.
And I think we now have this tool, generative AI, CHAT GPT. And so I wrote the book, uh, CHAT GPT MD, and I subtitle it, How AI Empowered Patients and Doctors. Can take back control of American medicine. And it is a revolutionary breakthrough. And you've made a crucial point in your introduction, Marco, which is how fast it's moving.
Cause the human brain is, it's good. It's good at. Arithmetic change, 1, 2, 3, 4. Geometric change, 1, 2, 4. But what it's not good is exponential growth, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32. And at the rate that the generative AI is improving, and by the way, all profits from the book go to Doctors Without Borders, a great charity. But at the rate that the AI technology is improving, doubling every year, It means that in five years, there'll be 30 times more powerful.
And that's beyond our imagination. Imagine if your car five years from now would be as fast as an airplane. You'd say, there's no way that could happen, but that's how fast this is improving. And so you're absolutely right. When we talked last time, I was worried that I was being overly optimistic, thinking that things would happen, uh, quicker than they actually would.
And what we've seen is that actually the industry has advanced. far more rapidly than even I, at the time, thought possible.
[00:05:35] Marco Ciappelli: So in the past book, when you were looking at the negative aspect of today's medical healthcare industry, uh, you were kind of hinting already, like I mentioned to the fact that technology can help as long as we embrace it and as long as we do it in the right way.
Now, a lot of people are concerned about generative AI. I mean, we see The people that welcome it, and we see people that don't want to know anything about it, especially when it comes to make decisions, right? There are biases, there are algorithms that may not work the way we want to. And we want to probably not only guardrail, but we want still the doctor to be in control.
Now, is it something that is still The vision still CHAT GPT as a tool to help the doctor to make the right decision, but it's still the doctor that make the decision, right?
[00:06:31] Dr. Robert Pearl: Well, the decision has to be made by the doctor because that's the individual. Who is going to write the prescription or perform the procedure.
But what CHAT GPT does, it's the first time in history. It actually creates expertise. You know, I write the book about the history. You go all the way back to the Gutenberg printing press. You know, it made books that were not affordable. Now become affordable for the middle class. And out of that came universities and libraries, but it was knowledge.
They could get information. There was not much you could do to be able to definitively do things for yourself. The same thing happened with the introduction of the internet and even the iPhone. This is different. If you go to general to generative AI in general, what does it do? You know that it can help you paint pictures.
Uh, basically looking like a Rembrandt, even though you've never had an art course. You could write computer programs even though you've never had an it course. You could write music in the style of Drake, even though you don't play an instrument, and it's gonna allow you to have that kind of expertise about medicine.
And what do I mean by that? Well, you can put, and I don't mean today, I wanna be very clear for listeners and viewers, I'm not speaking about. GPT 4 would currently exist. Just go ahead though, not forever. Just a couple of years, maybe three years, maybe four years. Uh, and at that particular point, we're going to have reliable tools that can make diagnoses.
So you can put all your information in place. And by all your information, I mean, your lab results. I mean, your family history. I mean, your medical, um, prior episodes. I mean, your entire genetic code. Okay. And using the totality of information with the most up to date modern information in American medicine make very reliable diagnoses or, and I think a big area of concern that I have is we fail to understand what chronic disease, these are diabetes, hypertension, lung problems, asthma.
60 percent of patients have a chronic disease and they account for 70 percent of medical costs. And the complications we're speaking about are things like heart attacks and strokes and cancer. We can do a better job of managing them. We do a very poor job today. Less than half of patients with type 2 diabetes, the adult onset version.
are well managed. We know that hypertension is controlled maybe 55 percent of the time and we don't have the ability to, or we don't actually have the time or demonstrate the ability to be able to control that well. This is where a generative AI tool could have a major positive impact and we're already seeing it.
You know, when I was on your show last time, I was talking about the major resistance of clinicians to this. Maybe only 10%, 15 percent saw it as being great. A survey came out last week, set the 40%. It'll be 60, 70, 80 very soon. And I think by five years from now, for clinicians, it'll be just as important and powerful as the stethoscope was in the past for patients.
It'll be like the iPhone. It'll be just part of everything that we do. So I'm less concerned than you were a couple of minutes ago. Clinicians will not embrace it. I think the harder question is going to be, will they change how they practice medicine, given the fact that it's available? Doctors will use it for their own purposes, but will they Educate patients, empower patients, trust patients.
And I want to make a point to something you just said, you know, as a human beings, we often compare technology against perfection. I want to compare it against to what currently exists. So 11 o'clock at night, your kid has a fever of 102. What do you do? You say, okay, I'll call my doctor's office. And what do you get?
A recording that says go to the ER. And why does it say that? Because that protects the clinician. Where it says you call your answering service to the doctor. Where does it say he or she will call you back in the morning. You're concerned your child could have maybe meningitis and not going to be alive in the morning.
What do you do? And today you have nothing. CHAT GPT will give you a lot. Will it be perfect? Probably not. Will it be far better than what exists now? Absolutely yes. Similar when you have chronic disease and you have wearable devices and you can measure almost everything. Blood pressure, pulse, blood oxygen, blood glucose.
And what do you do with that data? You don't know what to do with it. You're not an expert. Your doctor doesn't want it. He or she doesn't have time to review it all. CHAT GPT 2 can do that for you. Again, I'll say, make this point again, far better than we have today, not yet ready for prime time without a clinician, but within three to five years from now, I predict that it will.
[00:11:27] Marco Ciappelli: I mean, I, I'm not against, generative AI at all. I mean, I embrace it. I always say though that obviously it's a tool and as a tool you need to maneuver it the right way. So let me So let me ask you this and help me to understand how do you see the doctor, the medical industry using it, and how you were bringing the example of the consumer can use it.
And maybe the idea is, how can we use it all together in a system? What's the vision of what are the doctor doing now or what they will do eventually in a couple of years from now? What the patient, the consumers, will do and how this come together maybe in resolving this shortage? and this old, inadequate system that we have right now.
[00:12:24] Dr. Robert Pearl: I really like what you said a couple of minutes ago, that it's going to be a new system of care, and it's going to be a combination of the dedicated clinician, the empowered patient, and the technology. So how might it be used? Well, when I was on your show, which wasn't that long ago, but it was before, as you said, I started to write the book, um, two things that exist now didn't exist.
We're talking about change in six months. The first is called plugins and plugin is a great way to think about it. Cause you think about it as sort of a cordial plugin. It's not really plugged in. It's going to be Bluetooth, et cetera, but essentially it's going to allow a massive amount of information to be put into your own generative AI tool.
I want to make sure people understand. This is a personalized tool. You're not getting general advice about diabetes. You're getting advice specific to who you are, to what your genetics say, to what your family history is, to what your lab results are, to the medications you're on, to associated conditions.
And that ability to plug in. When I wrote CHAT GPT MD, I had to download, import, I started by putting in the 1. 2 million words that I had written into the generative AI tool and I made it my co author of the book just for a little bit of levity from my perspective to see how people take it. Well, now you have plugins that can make that far easier.
And the second part is memory. Memory is a new part of the application. The maximum number of words I could put in was 25, 000. And when you have 1. 2 million words, putting in 25, 000 at a time takes a long time. And I had to do it again and again and again. Well now, you actually can have it stored. Think about that.
Easy data entry and memory. Now why is that important? So now you're the clinician, you come in, and I say to you, you know, here's a dose of insulin that I think would be good for you, uh, or let's say a hypertension. Here's a medication I think will work. I want you to wear this wearable device, a little patch on your skin.
It's going to take constant reading. It's going to feed it with a Bluetooth application into your own generative AI. Okay. Bye bye. I'm going to give you a plugin which will include my thinking about how hypertension should be managed and it's going to have within it the boundaries. That if a certain amount of time there are problems, it will notify you to call me and let me know so I could set up a telemedicine visit with you to change your medication.
I'm not going to wait four months. You know, we take care of chronic disease on an episodic basis. Every three to four months I see you in the office. No, I'm going to continually be able to monitor you through this technology, be able to make changes more rapidly and If for some reason you're having a major problem for which an emergent intervention needs to occur, I want to make sure it happens right away.
So now we've had a linkage and hopefully when you come back to me at the next visit, you'll be better managed. Your condition will be under better control. Your chances, hypertension is the number one cause of strokes. You'll have less, a lower chance of a stroke. Diabetes, number one cause of kidney failure, major contributor to heart failure.
And now try to think about how much better that's going to be for you as a patient. When I can actually intervene to better manage your conditions, avoid the complications, and in many cases, by the way, reverse and prevent the chronic disease. Think about how much better that's going to be for you. And I want to make another point.
This is a key part. I believe it's going to improve the doctor patient relationship. Now, why is that? Well, number one, I'll know a lot more about you without you. You know, having to spend hours going through reams of data, but more importantly, it's going to free up time. Because if you're healthier, and by you and I mean just you and one patient, but let's say the 2000 patients I take care of, I have less work to do.
But of course, that leads to another problem, which is, am I going to use this technology if less work translates into less income? And the problem is the answer is probably no, not because there's anything bad about doctors, just the way we all are. We're not going to compromise our own personal lives and our families.
For any advance that's going to happen, at least consciously, we're not going to make that decision. And it's also why I think it's so important that we move from this transactional form of payment, where the more I do, the more I get paid, whether there's any good or not, doesn't matter. That's often, if I have a complication, I get paid twice to a situation in which I'm going to get paid for keeping you healthy, I'm going to get a certain number of dollars to provide all the care you need, and if you never have a heart attack.
You're the winner because you don't have the heart attack and I economically benefit and it's going to be that combination That I think has to evolve. We've known it should for a long time We just haven't had the tool to make health possible. We do now.
[00:17:19] Marco Ciappelli: So you referring to a value base? Health care, right?
Yes, service. And so the way I see it again into the system where everything is monitored, things can be prevented because I could see things happen. Because again, I love when you say. It's not every four months, every six months. It's a constant monitoring. So you know that if you do a little adjustment, you can kind of see, is it working?
Is it not working? I don't have to wait four months to see that it really didn't work. I've lost four months of health, pretty much. On the other hand, You're putting a lot of data in the end of the system, right? It's a system that, you know, HIPAA, I'm thinking cybersecurity, I'm thinking data privacy. Is, do you see generative AI creating an extra problem to the structure because of it's going to consume even more data
or do you see this as a, Yeah, it may be something that We will have to take care of, but the value, the benefit surpass the loss of that.
[00:18:36] Dr. Robert Pearl: Well, you say putting into the system, you know, we have to define what the system is.
[00:18:42] Marco Ciappelli: I'm being provocative.
[00:18:43] Dr. Robert Pearl: I just want to make sure people understand. It will be sitting in the AI application.
All of this analysis and all this data. Right now, all you can do is, in quotes, put it in the system. That's why I was saying it that way. Sending it to your doctor's office, in which case it's poorly protected because very few doctor's offices have the security that's necessary. Open AI will be as good as anyone's gonna be.
They have the best engineers, and I say Chachi bt by the way, I have no relationship to the company. As I said, all the prophets go Doctors Without Borders. It's also Gemini, it's also Claude. It's all of the large generative AI tools that are there. But let's go back to what we said before. We said before, is that we gotta compare it to what exists today.
So when you look at something like privacy. Which do you think is going to be more private? Google that makes its money on ads or open AI that makes it on subscriptions? Looking at a question of security. Now you're looking at a question of, can someone hack into the system and they're likely to hack into your EHR that has all electronic health record has all your information rather than trying to hack into your open AI.
It's not that it couldn't happen. It's just that these are risks that exist in the current world. I mean, look at your bank account. Someone could hack into your bank account and move all your money out to an offshore location. This is just the world that we live in. And when I compare, and the book has five parts, the first three about CHAT GPT itself, it's applications, it's opportunities.
The fourth part is on all the problems, the ones you're mentioning, privacy, security, bias, misinformation. And the fifth, by the way, is on leadership. Yep. Because leadership will be essential to do what you were saying before, to be able to take a powerful technology and translate it into better clinical outcomes, more convenient access for patients.
and increased affordability. And it's those three parts together, combined by the way, with satisfaction. We know that 60 percent of clinicians are burned out today. 70 percent of patients say that there needs to be a radical change in the system, that they're dissatisfied with what they have. And all of these parts to me align around a generative AI tool that's capable of doing a lot of the work, being able to empower patients.
And being able to achieve outcomes because it's continuous, because it's 24 by 7, far better than, as you mentioned, the episodic care system of American health care. Right.
[00:21:21] Marco Ciappelli: So let's talk about who you wrote this book for. I know in the past you wrote it. Your goal is to help and fast forward and changes in the, in the healthcare structure.
Because, you know, even the book that you wrote before, clearly, you see that there is something that needs to change. And I'm reading a quote here that from your website from Malcolm, Gladwell. It says, I was skeptical about the value of artificial intelligence will bring to medicine until I read CHAT GPT MD.
And now I'm a believer. Well, that's great. You know, he is a great thinker. And I'm thinking like, how are you finding many believer in the industry, the one that can really help to move things? I mean, you mentioned a few months ago, you were looking at Small percentage of MDs that they were believing in what Generative AI could do.
Now we're 40, now we're 80. What could be the obstacles for a general adoption for this?
[00:22:30] Dr. Robert Pearl: Well, Malcolm Gladwell, as you know, is a great, great, great nonfiction writer. Far better than me. I mean, he's one of my heroes and for him to come up with that conclusion, I was very pleased and
[00:22:40] Marco Ciappelli: grateful. Yeah, he got my attention immediately.
I read all his stuff. Yeah.
[00:22:47] Dr. Robert Pearl: Um, so, but I think it's being written for everyone. And what I'm hoping, and by the way, the reason I wrote it with CHAT GPT, and the way I'm publishing it through Amazon directly, was to speed up the process of getting the information out there. I gave myself six months. I knew that with exponential growth, if it took me two years to complete the book and get it distributed and put it in bookstores, that everything in it would be wrong.
It would be outdated. And so it's available predominantly through Amazon, um, virtually through Prime members. It can be delivered overnight or within a couple of days. So that was the plan of the book itself. And what I'm seeing is that as people use the application, and by the way, it's not just a simple type something in, you've got to learn how to put prompts multiple times, getting better information each time.
So it's a learning curve that has to be gone through. And I make the analogy to the iPhone. I, I think that, uh, this is going to be similar. When the iPhone first came out, I'm going to publish a piece in Forbes next week about this. I remember my dad bought an iPhone very early and he locked it in the trunk of his car.
Because in his mind, the only application was in case he was in a car accident and he had to call for help.
And
of course the idea that now we can do GPS and now you can, you know, order retail on it, you can book travel on it, you can play music on it, all the applications that we do now weren't really noticed.
It took about 10 years actually with the iPhone if you look at the history of the evolution. And with CHAT GPT, it's going to be similar until you try it and experiment with it. That's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing doctors writing to me saying, and this was before the book was published. They said, I know you're writing a book on CHAT GPT.
I don't think you know how good it's going to be. I've taken all the information on my patients as though I was the patient, put it in place for the individuals I saw today. And the answers I got were basically the same ones I gave to my patients. the patients when they came to the office. Earlier this week I did a podcast and the podcast host at the end of the show knew I was a skier, knew I was a doctor, and said, you know, my husband fell about two months ago and he had his arm over his head when he slipped on the ski slopes and his shoulder is still problematic.
What do you think? And I said, so I'll tell you what, I think I know what he has. But why don't you put all the information of the CHAT GPT and just see what comes out of it. She had never used it before and she sent me a thank you note. She said, I put it all in there. It made the right diagnosis. It said that the diagnostic test he needed and said most likely he's gonna need surgery.
We immediately called an orthopedic surgeon. He scheduled for the OR. If we had waited, it would have been too late to do the repair. That's the kind of experience people are going to have, but one again, I want to highlight this again. No one should rely on what currently exists, GPT 4, to replace humans.
Everything coming out of it needs to be checked at this point through a clinician, but that doesn't mean that getting educated, gaining expertise, is not going to help you to be a better patient. and to work more closely with your doctor. Printing out a hundred pages off of Google with every link in the world that has a lot of crazy thoughts and misinformation on it, that's not particularly helpful.
Using CHAT GPT to get into a diagnosis that is going to be very, very reliable and accurate. With an understanding of what you need to get happen and contacting a clinician to review it all. I think that's where we need to be right now and I'm hoping in publishing the book that people will start doing that.
I don't, I use the word experimenting and I don't mean in a problematic way, but using it to try to learn from it. And I predict that most people will find it very satisfying and they're going to be amazed at the reliability and specificity. And again, I want to stress, I have no personal financial involvement.
I make nobody offer the book or any relationship with any of these companies. I'm just trying to make American medicine once again, excellent.
[00:27:09] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, and that's very admirable. And I share with you all the things that you said. Many times the people that don't believe are the people that refuse it, right?
They don't even try it. They're just like, no, I'm not going to use that thing. But when you do, and I'm talking about, I write my newsletter and I declare like you say it's me and my AI assistant because it helped me to do the research about what I'm gonna write And maybe it'll review the form and review the editing so that there is no my italian uh english mistakes and And if you think about it, it's exactly the same job that an assistant a real person would do You don't just go and write the book on yourself.
There's still the editor. There is still the agent There is still the people that review it that give you the advice and um And the beauty that we can do this. I mean, sure, some people are going to lose some jobs, but I think every industry has to be treated in a certain way. And we're here talking about the healthcare and we know how some serious help like this, I think, I think it can help.
And I love that. I love the fact that you're suggesting people to try it, but obviously don't act on advice that may, you know, that may be an hallucination.
[00:28:29] Dr. Robert Pearl: Right now don't trust it as the final answer, but also don't think about this being way off in the future. We're talking about a couple of years. In fact, NVIDIA, that's the manufacturer of many of the chips that run these systems, Uh, they just created a partnership and announced that they had a nurse AI bot, degenerative AI, and they had a lot of data on the fact that the bot was actually more accurate than the nurses who they tested at the same time, with the same questions and the same concerns.
Uh, there's data coming out of a research project from the University of Phoenix in Arizona that showed that not only is generative AI already more accurate than at least the email and text message responses coming from clinicians, but that it's also more empathetic. There's just a study in JAMA comparing ED physicians and this technology.
The technology was over 90 percent accurate for patients coming to the ED as opposed to 80 percent for the clinicians. We could go down the list. I'm not saying it's better yet, but understanding exponential growth, we can see where it's going and we better be ready when it comes to be able to maximally utilize it.
And that, that's where I'm hoping that Americans will go right now and, um, again, why I wrote CHAT GPT MD and again, the subtitle, how AI empowered patients and doctors, both of them can take back control of American medicine. It's out of control to the point you made. It's not as though we have a risk of doctors losing jobs.
We have far more work than doctors can do. 71, 000 physicians left the industry last year. We need help. The burnout we see is the fact that doctors are racing on treadmill every day, seeing patients every 17 minutes on average. We need to create time for them. And the doctor patient relationship is eroded.
When the clinician is forced to speed the patient through the office. And if CHAT GPT, and I'm making this number up, 20%, let's say, of what doctors do in the office can be done using technology, that will give clinicians the gift of the time they need to invest in the doctor patient relationship. And I think we'll see satisfaction going up for both the providers of care and the recipients.
[00:31:01] Marco Ciappelli: I think the key is personalization of the cure, because if you go read an article about something, it doesn't necessarily apply to you, but if you have your history in the memory of the CHAT GPT, and that it's done based on what he knows about you, it's exactly the same thing with the doctor, which is not going to happen when you change doctor every five minutes.
Because your doctor just disappeared because he's not working at that facility anymore. And you have to start all over again. So I can see that. And the other thing definitely is that certain diagnoses, they are definitely repetitive. I mean, there are certain things that, hey, if you have these symptoms, these symptoms, these symptoms, you probably have this.
Again, be sure you double check. But, you know, I think the doctor could use their time for much more challenging And elevating the industry the way that it should be. So I want to thank you again for your time. I know you have a ton of podcasts coming up. Maybe, you know, you need to create your own CHAT GPT version that can do the podcast.
But I still want to have you on the show because it's always a pleasure. I always learn a lot and make me think about the future and where we're going. And so very, very grateful for that. Um, every link will be in the podcast notes, uh, the link to the book, . And again, I want to remember What to say and remind it to the target to the audience that the profit are going to doctor without borders.
So not only you're contributing to the industry to educating people, but you're also contributing for something that is really, really positive. So
[00:32:42] Dr. Robert Pearl: And my website is RobertPearlMD. com for anyone who wants information sooner. That's RobertPearlMD. com and they can also subscribe to my monthly musings.
All of it's free, no advertising. If they want the most up to date information, this is exploding at a rapid rate. We have to recognize it. We have to harness it. Either we will lead the way or someone else will. And I, I'm convinced that if the clinicians and the patients together. Don't find the way to be the owners of it that they'll regret it when someone else leads the way and uses it more for profit than for better health and improve clinical outcomes.
So thanks for having me today, Marco. Uh, you're a technological leader and a thinker and it's a privilege to be on your show.
[00:33:30] Marco Ciappelli: Always a pleasure. Goodbye, everybody. Stay tuned, subscribe, and definitely follow the newsletter with Dr. Robert Pearl. That's how I know everything that he knows. So he's my CHAT GPT.
Take care, everybody. Bye, Dr. Robert Pearl.
[00:33:45] Dr. Robert Pearl: Thank you.